Transcript

Kerrien Suarez (00:04):

Good morning, Ericka, and Raquel. Thanks for joining us on the Beyond DEI* Podcast. In the real world it’s Monday morning, though. I know when this episode drops, it’ll be a different day. But happy Monday to each of you.

Kerrien Suarez (00:21):

To get started, it would be great if you could share a bit about your background and experience in race equity work. Ericka, you’re first on my screen, so why don’t you start us off and then Raquel if you could share a bit about your background, we’d love to hear it. Take it away, Ericka.

Ericka Hines (00:42):

My background with race equity is tied very close to the history of Equity In The Center®. I have been doing DEI work for over 14 years, but specifically focusing on race equity probably for the last seven, six to seven years.

Ericka Hines (01:03):

And that has been working closely with Equity In The Center® in terms of being a part of the team that created the Awake to Woke to Work® framework and also doing teaching around that.

Ericka Hines (01:21):

I also consider myself a race equity practitioner in my own business and have worked with clients for the last several years on helping them build a racially inclusive and equitable culture inside of their organizations.

Kerrien Suarez (01:39):

Thanks so much. Raquel.

Raquel Gutierrez (01:42):

Hi. So, first I just want to say I’m joining you from the land of the Tohono O’odham and the Piipaash people. And we know that as Central Arizona. And I mention that because I do think it actually really informs … It’s where I grew up and it really informs how I enter into equity work, racial equity work. I was born into a family of movement organizers and consider myself a third-generation organizer with a focus on institutional organizing.

Raquel Gutierrez (02:18):

Most of my work addresses racial equity through leadership development and the organizational development door. So, helping individuals and organizations be able to create cultures where they feel seen, where they feel focused and where they feel that they can show up as their full selves.

Raquel Gutierrez (02:46):

And that takes us into practices and policies. And also, for me, the funest part is navigating and managing and working with people around their mental models and behaviors related to how they see the world and how they engage with other people.

Raquel Gutierrez (03:02):

I’ve been doing consulting for 20 plus years, but really with more of a focus on racial equity in the last probably seven years. Though I do think just by the nature of who I am and the color of my skin I’ve been doing this work my whole life.

Kerrien Suarez (03:22):

Cool. Thanks so much, Raquel. Both of you have been part of the Equity In The Center® family since the beginning, Ericka, since the very, very beginning before I was part of the team. And Raquel, you’ve been an advisor since 2017, so it’s very special to have you both on the podcast and then still supporting our work in 2024.

Kerrien Suarez (03:48):

So, that’s a segue to asking each of you how you are supporting Equity In The Center® currently in terms of programming. Ericka, you’re going to be helping us out on the senior leaders front, Raquel, you on the race equity practitioners front.

Kerrien Suarez (04:04):

So if each of you could take a few moments and share a bit about your respective programs and why they’re important to helping us continue to support Equity In The Center® of stakeholders and then the community of practitioners nationally. You want to start Ericka?

Ericka Hines (04:24):

Yeah. I … Raquel, I started the last time.

Raquel Gutierrez (04:29):

Okay. Yeah. So, I feel so fortunate and lucky to be working with Equity In The Center® around this Practitioner’s Community of Practice. I’ve been running Communities of Practice for a really long time, like most of my consulting career.

Raquel Gutierrez (04:46):

And one of the things that I love about Communities of Practice is it’s an invitation for people to be in relationship with each other, and particularly when we’re talking about being in relationship around topics that are difficult to navigate and seemingly more difficult to navigate day-to-day as we look at what’s happening in our world.

Raquel Gutierrez (05:10):

And so, this Practitioner’s Community of Practice will be a space where people come together and again, first are and foremost are seen and are seen for what they bring to the conversation regardless of where they fit into it, what their experiences, and to be able to help people increase their levels of self-awareness and consciousness so that they can be thoughtful about how they enter into doing this work.

Raquel Gutierrez (05:36):

And I think really importantly is owning and understanding our contribution. So, a large part of this Community of Practice and the conversations will be about people being able to really stand into their contributions to operationalize racial equity, to really be in it in an authentic way.

Raquel Gutierrez (06:03):

And I think that that can only be done well when you have other people around you. So, my signature line on my email is In Lak’ech Ala K’in which means you are my other me. And that’s what I think a community of people where you’re in relationship with each other offers, it offers the ability to see yourself in another person, which I think is a move and an advancement towards breathing life into humanity.

Kerrien Suarez (06:42):

Yeah. Thank you so much, Raquel. Ericka.

Ericka Hines (06:47):

So, I am working on supporting the senior leaders inside of organizations who are the decision makers, who I have always said you have to get the senior leadership to support your work because they can either help to accelerate your race equity work forward, or they can be the sort of the blockade to it continuing further.

Ericka Hines (07:28):

So, I think senior leaders have, and in my experience, have had … they may be bought in to the idea of doing race equity work, but may not feel as though they have the skills or the competencies to really lead that work as a senior leader. So, the work that I have and continue to do with Equity In The Center® is really how can we support senior leaders either in deepening their analyses or strengthening their competencies?

Ericka Hines (08:03):

And I use competencies instead of skills because I think it’s skills, behaviors, practices, et cetera, to really integrate race equity into how they lead, so that race equity doesn’t become sort of this adjunct thing, but becomes really a core part of their leadership skills.

Ericka Hines (08:31):

Specifically I’ve done that in the past in terms of, like I said, teaching the Race Equity Culture™ framework, but also in hope to be doing this in the future in terms of a cohort program that’ll be utilizing the senior leader levers tool, which Equity In The Center® just put out, which is a way for senior leaders to gather feedback in terms of how they are leading in terms of advancing racial equity and what they can do next to sort of move along our framework from either awake to woke or woke to work, so-

Kerrien Suarez (09:17):

Thanks, Ericka.

Raquel Gutierrez (09:19):

Hey, Kay, can I just jump in around-

Kerrien Suarez (09:22):

Sure.

Raquel Gutierrez (09:22):

Something. Ericka, I really appreciate how you are framing this notion of competencies. I think it has such a heavy piece of baggage with it, but the way you described it around it being all encompassing really, I think is a way for us to really embrace it and to recognize that the behaviors are so much a part of how we live out and live into the skill sets. And so, I just want to thank you for bringing us that framework. Thanks.

Ericka Hines (09:59):

Happy to share, use as you will.

Raquel Gutierrez (10:02):

Thank you.

Kerrien Suarez (10:02):

Well, I think it’s really helpful to illustrate the work that we’re doing, how robustly you talked about competencies and the distinction between skills and competencies. And when you were talking earlier, Raquel, you talked about folks being able to stand in their contribution and be both authentic and accountable.

Kerrien Suarez (10:23):

And so, I see how Ericka talked about skills and competencies in the way you talked about authenticity and accountability as complimentary. And folks who are doing this work, whether they’re senior leaders or practitioners, depending upon where they are in their journey, don’t necessarily see those things as connected.

Kerrien Suarez (10:42):

So, I was hoping each of you could talk about Raquel, in terms of practitioners, Ericka, you, in terms of senior leaders, why are these things so important for folks to be effective in building a Race Equity Culture™? So, building skills and competencies, authenticity and accountability, and kind of how they work together as folks lead an organization moving through this work, or as folks serve as the capacity building partner for their broader team in doing this work. Raquel, maybe you want to start?

Raquel Gutierrez (11:14):

Yeah. So, the easiest and first response that comes into my mind is that I don’t know if there’s any other way to do it, but in the holistic way that you just described to be effective. And because I think all of those things embrace who we are as human beings.

Raquel Gutierrez (11:37):

And so, I think how we discussed both of these are sort of all elements or parts of ourselves as human beings, that we have these things that are connected to our hearts that may help us show up authentically, you know what I’m saying, authentically.

Raquel Gutierrez (11:58):

And then there are just the realities as we move into complicated situations and complex situations that we need to be able to have skill sets and tools to be able to help us navigate those. And that both of those are shaped by each other actually, I believe.

Raquel Gutierrez (12:20):

And then the other piece I would just say about this is that I’m working with practitioners, and we identified that as folks who are primarily working in organizations potentially at a decision leadership higher role, but also consultants.

Raquel Gutierrez (12:42):

And I do think that there’s something about the way racial equity resonates, particularly with emerging and midline leaders and that there’s a lot of heart and resonance with them and they’re not necessarily in a position to be able to sort of drive things the way Ericka, that you talked about it.

Raquel Gutierrez (13:11):

But they are in a position to do that within their own sphere of influence and their own sphere of power. And so, I think helping people understand where they stand in the work and what they are able to do and where they need to organize and advocate with other leaders to be able to move the work forward in their organizations is really important.

Raquel Gutierrez (13:37):

And for me, that just comes with a really clear understanding of your role and what you’re actually trying to accomplish. And so, that’s sort of what I would share. Ericka, how about you?

Ericka Hines (13:55):

I’m writing down the role of what you want to accomplish. I really think, and I’m reflecting Kay, on your question about why building skills and accountability, sort of piecing those together and why they’re important.

Ericka Hines (14:13):

And I think from my point of view, doing racial equity work when you take it on as a responsibility is just that it’s a responsibility. And I think in having that responsibility, I wrote down words like, I think it’s an opportunity for folks to lead with their values. I think it is also an opportunity to go to talk about, when you’re talking about accountability, to also have folks lead with a sense of integrity.

Ericka Hines (14:51):

And without critiquing too much, but I’m going to critique a little bit, I think that one of the things that we have seen across many sectors when folks have talked about doing racial equity is they have not talked about or leaned into leading with integrity and taking this on as a responsibility.

Ericka Hines (15:19):

It has been, in fact, something that has been what I like to call, pull it off the shelf, do it for a little bit, close that book back up, that didn’t work out, put it back on the bookshelf. That to me is not values based or leading with integrity. That is trying to solve a problem.

Ericka Hines (15:37):

And so, I think why it’s important is because of what I said, which is, in my opinion, this is a responsibility. And if you have that responsibility, I personally believe that you would want to, and it’s the way that I work with my clients and also try and hold myself to how can I take care of my responsibility with the best skills that I can either learn or have.

Kerrien Suarez (16:12):

Thank you both. That was really helpful. So, now I’m going to ask a question about working in community. So, building on what each of you were talking about in terms of building skills, competencies and being authentic and accountable.

Kerrien Suarez (16:26):

When we work in cohorts, as Equity In The Center® prefers to do, because of how it supports folks in learning and modeling practice for one another, we see different perspectives and experiences and depth of work from individual participants.

Kerrien Suarez (16:42):

So, in each of your respective experiences, how does that sort of community contribute to building folks’ muscles in this work? Like encouraging their persistence and giving them also models to shoot for in their own practice.

Kerrien Suarez (17:00):

And if you have a couple of examples, or maybe just one example of where you’ve seen a breakthrough happen in this context, it would be helpful to hear from each of you. So, whoever wants to go first, take it away.

Ericka Hines (17:18):

So, can I use the Awake to Woke to Work® public offerings as an example? It’s not a long-term cohort. But it is a conglomeration of folks. And they do come from all different parts of an organization, but I’ll actually talk about the senior leaders because when I was teaching the Awake to Woke to Work®course, public programming, it would be interesting sort of in the chat to sort of see this like a very informal community sort of being created.

Ericka Hines (17:58):

But to also see folks, senior leaders asking questions and then other senior leaders or board members responding saying, “I had that same thing happen. Here’s what we did to deal with that. Or here’s a resource.”

Ericka Hines (18:16):

And I think about the fact that — and there are … I sort of defer to Raquel because you have been doing this for so long, but I’ll say in this instance of sort of this temporary community forming, what I saw was an immediate kind of peer networking happening that was natural.

Ericka Hines (18:42):

And I also saw resource sharing in real time that was also happening in these sort of situations. And so, I think that to be in a cohort program only deepens and widens the opportunity to build that peer network to feel as though … to normalize what folks are experiencing but then also to really not look to the facilitator for all of the answers, but to be able to learn in group from each other. So, that’s what I would say.

Raquel Gutierrez (19:27):

Yeah.

Kerrien Suarez (19:27):

Raquel?

Raquel Gutierrez (19:28):

I think, yeah, with these cohort models, I really appreciate that notion of there are opportunities where we get to be with people and maybe even over an extended period of time to learn and be with each other. And when you enter into the cohort model, I feel like there’s some type of formalization around the intentionality of being in a relationship with each other.

Raquel Gutierrez (19:53):

And so, typically the cohorts will have rules of engagement and a very clear sense of intentionality. Like, we want to build a community that when this experience ends, you actually do still feel like you’re part of a cohort and that you can pick up the phone and talk with people.

Raquel Gutierrez (20:12):

And so, Ericka, all of the things that you mentioned around what you saw in that one particular example, I think is what we also see in cohorts and in the way that I typically design cohorts and how I’ve experienced formal cohorts, is that that’s intentionally part of the design.

Raquel Gutierrez (20:33):

So, we might do something around critical response, using Liz Lerman’s framework around how to do peer to peer, she wouldn’t call it peer to peer coaching, and other people would, but there is an opportunity in a more formal way of entering into how people can receive information or feedback or ideas on things that they’re working on.

Raquel Gutierrez (20:56):

And the other important piece around sort of how those relationships are negotiated and created in a cohort is that I think it fundamentally just helps people see that they’re not alone. So, again, Ericka, to your experience or to your example around an ED or a CEO putting something in and a board member responding to it, it is really, I don’t know, I feel like it’s kind of a sacred work when you see people recognize I’m not alone and there is somebody I can actually reach out to.

Raquel Gutierrez (21:31):

And I think that contributes to sort of this specialness that seems like a weird word, but sort of the uniqueness of what a cohort model does intentionally. And I’ve seen experiences and last year I was in an experience where I saw very high-level leaders in different levels of government be able to share with each other and navigate decisions that were so difficult.

Raquel Gutierrez (22:05):

And they were able to do it with showing them their full selves. So, sometimes being very emotional about it because when you’re deciding the fate of a young child, that’s an emotional, can be an emotional issue, and it creates relationships in a way that allows you to do that without shame or without embarrassment.

Raquel Gutierrez (22:27):

But understanding if I bring my full humanity to the work that I’m doing, sometimes it requires that I have to shed a tear or be in a way, and I can’t do that in every space. But in this space, in the cohort space, we can create it in a way where people understand the importance of that and actually make room and space for it in a way that’s full of grace and encouraged.

Kerrien Suarez (22:57):

Thank you. Each of you has spoken to the benefits of cohort learning space. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the conflict or tension that can sometimes arise owing to, as each of you talked about, folks are just in a different place organizationally, individually in their respective journeys to understand how they fit into dismantling white supremacy in an organizational context, and sort of how their individual identities intersect with their institutional role and responsibilities.

Kerrien Suarez (23:34):

So, what are some of the challenges that come up when learning in community? And if you could talk a little bit about the breakthroughs that that leads to, or why it’s beneficial as folks are working to deepen their practice. Ericka?

Ericka Hines (23:55):

Hey, I’m still thinking. I want to sort of focus on what immediately comes to mind is having folks be at different stages of their awareness, of their analysis, of their application. I was alliterative there. In terms of doing this work, I actually think that that is a space where you can go “A challenge exists because as the facilitator, it is my job to kind of keep everyone moving.”

Ericka Hines (24:42):

And when you have people at different places the easier part would be to have everyone at the same pace moving in the same direction. When that’s not possible, there has to be a certain amount of grace. There has to be grace from the facilitator, my plan, I suddenly have to become very pliable and say, “Okay, we have to slow down.”

Ericka Hines (25:17):

But I think there’s also a grace, and this isn’t about the facilitator. There’s also a grace from your peers. And oftentimes, because they may say like, “Listen, I’m over here, we’re working on this.” And I often think that that is also a time that what I have seen is both education coming from the facilitator, but also sort of quick educating coming from peers as well.

Ericka Hines (25:46):

Like, here’s what you need to do to sort of get to this level. Here’s what you need to do to learn about this. And from those who are a little bit earlier in their journey, there’s almost an acceleration that happens for them. Yeah, that’s definitely a challenge that I’ve seen and tried to address.

Ericka Hines (26:10):

And yeah, sometimes that happens naturally from their peers and sometimes it has to happen for me where I’m going like, “Alright, we have to go back here and then, but we’re going to accelerate a little faster than those of you who are at the beginning of your journey may like, but it’s okay. You can catch up.”

Kerrien Suarez (26:31):

Yeah. Thanks Ericka. Raquel?

Raquel Gutierrez (26:34):

Really great description, Ericka. And I feel like part of the responsibility of setting up any cohort is sort of acknowledging who’s in the room and where people are at. And so, I think that just alone can help people when they’re in the conflict, remember, oh yeah, I’m in the room with people who are super seasoned or people who are sort of newer on this journey and I want to believe that people will extend a natural grace, but if they don’t, then as facilitators we try and make that happen.

Raquel Gutierrez (27:09):

The other thing that I think is an interesting conflict around participation is that I’ve experienced and I myself have experienced this, people who are earlier on in the journey with really seasoned leaders or who come from environments or sectors or ways of working that are very different from their own feel a sense of like, “I don’t know if I can be in this conversation. I don’t know if I have that experience to be able to contribute something.”

Raquel Gutierrez (27:39):

And depending upon where they’re at in their own sort of development, that can move into a place of “Why am I here? I don’t belong.” If a person is at a different place in their human development, they might be like, “This is a challenge. I’m going to get to learn from these really seasoned people. How can I make that happen? Hey, facilitator, how can we make that happen?”

Raquel Gutierrez (28:05):

But it’s important because when people enter into a cohort, it is very challenging sometimes for a facilitator to exactly know not just where people are at in their analysis and in their competencies, but where they’re at in their human development, their adult development, particularly on this topic in relationship to their emotional intelligence.

Raquel Gutierrez (28:30):

And I just think that plays a really big role in racial equity work, and we don’t talk about it enough. And it is the place, Ericka, when you were talking about integrity earlier, I was thinking about I think people think about that a lot of times around their values and then their actions and how those things match.

Raquel Gutierrez (28:55):

I also think there’s an element in that around emotionality that when people experience an emotion and it doesn’t match their value and it doesn’t match their skillset or their competency, there can be a really big dissonance. And a lot can happen in that moment. And that’s a moment.

Raquel Gutierrez (29:14):

A lot of care needs to sort of be in place to be able to help that person see that maybe who they thought they were, aren’t who they thought they were. And that’s happening like in multiple times, Kay, during the cohort. So, when we think about the conflict that can arise from that both individual conflict and interpersonal conflict and then interpersonal conflict, it can be a lot, but if you’re facilitating, you kind of know that might happen. So, you prepare yourself and the group for that to happen.

Kerrien Suarez (29:57):

Awesome. Thank you both. Go ahead, Ericka.

Ericka Hines (30:01):

Something that you just said, Raquel really struck me, which, totally agreeing around the piece around the emotional intelligence and emotionality, and what I thought of is that in doing racial equity work, I mean, there’s lots of sort of competencies around that, but one of them is the ability to catch yourself. To understand.

Ericka Hines (30:36):

And I’ll give an example, which okay, to me is maybe a little bit humorous, which is when internalized racism shows up in my being, I feel I’ve been doing this long enough that I feel disciplined enough of myself to go like, “That’s internalized racism, Ericka.”

Ericka Hines (30:59):

I think in terms of emotional IQs, that took years to get to that point. The dissonance that you’re talking about, that’s the initial reaction. Like, wait, this doesn’t feel right. And not to say that I do it perfectly, because I do not at all.

Ericka Hines (31:21):

But now I’ll go like, “Okay, Ericka, that thought that you’re having, that is almost carrying through and out your mouth. No, no, no. That’s inside of you.” And I think that not everyone in a cohort can sort of develop that discipline, like I said, I think it takes a long time, but I do think that there’s certain being around folks and having people maybe even share that they have that similar experience, Raquel. That’s what’s occurring to me is like developing emotional IQ happens in cohorts.

Raquel Gutierrez (31:58):

Yeah. And I definitely think that it’s a forever, just like racial equity is, it’s a forever developing thing within a person, a level of consciousness, and then being able to manifest it in our actions. And I love the fact that you just shared that with a lot of lightness because I know that previously when I would recognize that and I didn’t have the emotional intelligence to navigate that in a particular way, it manifested as guilt or shame.

Raquel Gutierrez (32:34):

Now it manifests as okay, there you go. And we’re all human beings and I can extend myself and I can extend other people grace and understanding. And also, it allows me to lean in to myself and to other people with a different level of curiosity.

Raquel Gutierrez (32:54):

Like, man, why do I think that way about X, Y or Z or that person or this situation? And there’s something about this work in general that I think infusing not something that’s silly, but some lightness into this work is really critical and important because — oh my goodness, girls, I was just going to start talking to you in Spanish because that’s when you know I’m really present. And so …

Raquel Gutierrez (33:30):

But this sensibility of okay, we’re all in this together. Come on. That feels authentic to me. That feels integriful to me.

Kerrien Suarez (33:46):

Thank you both for sharing. Because I feel like what you’re narrating is what folks can narrate within cohort programs that you don’t hear elsewhere.

Kerrien Suarez (33:58):

I think we share these things with one another as practitioners in conversation about a lot of different things. But most of the folks who come to us for cohort programs, or like you were saying, Ericka, to open enrollment trainings, don’t have that type of community, nor do they have the leadership within their organizations necessarily who can narrate the internal process that you described as part of their leadership journey and their literal leadership work within the organization.

Kerrien Suarez (34:29):

So, hopefully these are spaces where folks can build those muscles, model for one another, and then go back to their organizations.

Raquel Gutierrez (34:36):

Kay, can I jump in real quick? Yeah.

Kerrien Suarez (34:38):

Sure.

Raquel Gutierrez (34:39):

That is so important. When you were asking about building community through the cohort model, it’s that many of these people will also go back to organizations where they’re still not able to talk about it. Even if you’re a senior leader, you might have a board that isn’t ready for that conversation or is resistant.

Raquel Gutierrez (34:59):

And that’s important to understand in building cohorts because it helps us to find the boundaries of what a cohort can do and what a cohort can’t do. And it helps people set expectations so that when they leave this really vibrant experience of being in a cohort that then they recognize when I go back, I’m prepared that folks may not be in this conversation with me.

Raquel Gutierrez (35:25):

And I think that’s part of the responsibility of building a cohort community is helping people remember, this community is only a community as much as we make it one. And that means after this cohort too.

Kerrien Suarez (35:41):

Thanks Raquel. That’s a really important distinction because yeah, your organization may not have caught up with you or your board or your colleagues, and being able to hold that tension within the organization as you do the work is another competency that folks need to deepen.

Kerrien Suarez (36:00):

You teed up Raquel, my next question, which was going to be about, so what happens when the cohort program has ended? So, how do the skills and the competencies that each of you have talked about cultivating continue to be cultivated? And then where do the relationships that have been built in these spaces go? Ericka, you want to start?

Ericka Hines (36:26):

Yes. I mean, I was thinking about the fact that it’s an opportunity to lean into relationship, the relationships. Hopefully you will see the cohort as a way to not just build relationships for that particular period of time but that you have found a peer or two, or even a bunch of people, everyone in the cohort who you can rely on to be that source of support and informal learning after the cohort ends.

Ericka Hines (37:05):

I mean, I think that if we’re doing our job right, not only are we helping to advance, and Raquel, I think you’ve spoken so well on this, not just advance people’s competencies, but we also have advanced sort of the bench. But we’ve also advanced a sense of community for folks so that they don’t feel alone, even though in their organization they may be the sole person or be experiencing challenges.

Ericka Hines (37:40):

It’s like now they’ve sort of, like, built out their team of advisors around them that hopefully they can rely on to either sometimes just be an ear or a text person. And in other cases, may be willing to sit down and strategize with them, so-

Raquel Gutierrez (38:05):

Yeah. I remember really early on in my career being an administrative assistant for a very prestigious fellowship. And I remember hearing one of the fellows say as they were talking to the new fellows, this was a graduated fellow saying, “Don’t be surprised with your ability to make decisions and see things at a speed you were never able to before. And don’t be afraid of that.”

Raquel Gutierrez (38:36):

And I thought there was something … that really resonated with me and stuck with me. And now, I understand why that is so important. One is the ability to have clarity about who you are, what you’re trying to do, what your role is, what your authority is, and what you’re actually trying to accomplish is so critical. And it has different implications and consequences.

Raquel Gutierrez (39:06):

So, if you’re a senior leader, you typically are able to move at quicker speed than a person who is an emerging or what I would call a midline leader. And so, even understanding your own pace at which you want to move, like, “Oh, I know this is the right thing to do to move us to here.”

Raquel Gutierrez (39:27):

But do you have all the pieces in place? Do you have the leadership that will support you? Do you have the infrastructure? Do you have somebody who will advocate and stand next with you? Who else on your team is organized to be in that conversation with you? Especially if it’s a risky move, it’s a move that your organization may not be ready for, but you want to kind of try it.

Raquel Gutierrez (39:50):

Well, you might not want to try it. You might want to get some other pieces in place before you actually move that, but it doesn’t discount that you have the ability, you have the capacity to move at a quicker pace.

Raquel Gutierrez (40:04):

And I feel like one of the things in coaching that I very often find is that people come to me sometimes in coaching when they’re ready to leave an organization, but they’re not ready to admit that to themselves. And it often shows up because they want to move and they’re realizing there’s nowhere for me to not only move maybe up or out in the organization, but intellectually in this work of racial equity. There’s no space for that actually really to happen in any meaningful way.

Raquel Gutierrez (40:37):

And then they realize, “Okay, now I need to prepare to move into someplace different,” or try and tackle that in their organization. And that speed comes sometimes at a place. And at a speed that’s so quick and it’s so true and that they recognize it’s interfering with their integrity to show up, that they have to kind of figure that out. And having a person to talk to is often nice.

Raquel Gutierrez (41:05):

I mean, I’m kind of proud that I would say at least 50 to 60% of my coaching clients leave their jobs within six months to a year. I consider that a success, especially if they are not happy and there really is no assessment of them being able to move the work, move the mental models, find a place that will love you and will bring you in and do that.

Kerrien Suarez (41:32):

Thanks for sharing that. And it’s so true about coaching.

Ericka Hines (41:35):

You sound like an excellent coach, Raquel.

Kerrien Suarez (41:39):

Well, thank you for that setup. Because my next question is how can listeners connect with each of you and learn more about your work with and beyond Equity In The Center®?

Raquel Gutierrez (41:51):

I think they’re going to share sort of our contact information somewhere in this podcast piece. And I would just say, just pick up the phone or just look at my Calendly, which is at the bottom of … send me an email.

Raquel Gutierrez (42:08):

I’m kind of old fashioned that way. I really appreciate it when people just pick up the phone and are like, “Hey, you don’t know me from anybody, but I heard this podcast and I’m really curious about X, Y and Z.” I mean, if I don’t have the capacity, I always pass people on to others. Or we explore how we can be in relationship with each other. And there are many forms of relationships. I don’t think it’s all about consulting, frankly. It’s about being in relationship.

Kerrien Suarez (42:42):

Thanks, Raquel. Ericka?

Ericka Hines (42:46):

Okay, so I have to be honest right now, Raquel’s openness brought up all of my introvert red flags of, I was like, “Email me, that’s what you should do and say hello.” And I was like, “That sounds lovely.” So, yes, me, email me. My work with Equity In The Center®, I am there and doing things, but also you can email me and learn about my work in terms of Every Level Leadership as well as my research and work with Black Women Thriving.

Kerrien Suarez (43:27):

Thank you both for a phenomenal dialogue today. I’m excited for this to be out in the world and for our stakeholders to connect with each of you in cohort programs and beyond. So, thanks so much.

Raquel Gutierrez (43:41):

Thank you. And Ericka, it’s so great to be in conversation with you and I hope we can do this again soon offline. Alright.

Ericka Hines (43:48):

Yeah.

Kerrien Suarez (43:50):

Thank you both